YOURSAY ‘Rejecting PKR chief Azizah is equivalent to rejecting democracy.’
Sultan can appoint one not on the lists as MB
Kim Quek: Yes, technically, the sultan can appoint someone not on the list of suggested MB candidates, but in reality, such an act is impractical, and in fact, damaging to the image of the sultan.
First, if the appointee is not from the ruling party, he would be voted out of office. Second, if he is from the ruling party, he would be asked by his party not to accept the appointment, and if he defies the party, he may also be voted out of office.
In either event, the deposed appointee will have to either resign or ask the sultan to dissolve the assembly, resulting in either another new appointment by the sultan or a fresh election for the state.
This process may be repeated ad infinitum if the sultan insists on appointing a candidate not nominated by the ruling party.
Perhaps even more damaging to the sultan is public perception that he does not respect democracy, which in the final crunch, must mean that the will of the majority of the people prevails.
Anonymous_1375693422: Lawyer Param Cumaraswamy says the sultan can dissolve the state assembly (and bring about a fresh election) if the sultan's choice of MB is not supported by a majority in the assembly.
This would allow the sultan to continue dissolving the assembly until a majority of members are coerced to support his preferred choice of MB in order to avoid facing another fresh election. Is this what the state constitution or its framers intend? I seriously doubt it.
I believe the framers intended constitutional government and not monarchical rule under a constitutional facade. The following seems more in accord with constitutionalism.
When the sultan's preferred choice of MB loses a vote of confidence in the assembly, the sultan can only dissolve the assembly if he reasonably believes that no other member is likely to enjoy majority support.
In other words, if there is a member that is clearly supported by a majority, the sultan shall appoint that member as MB and shall not resort to dissolution of the assembly.
Vijay47: Both these seasoned learned lawyers (Param and Sallehuddin Saidin) confirm what the rakyat has been saying all along - that whoever the sultan chooses as menteri besar, even if he be outside that magical "list", that person must enjoy the confidence of the majority of the members of the assembly.
And should that person lose a vote of confidence, the recourse need not be the dissolution of the assembly but the mantle passing on to someone who indeed enjoys majority support.
Pemerhati: Quote: “Sallehuddin said the pre-condition is that the person must have the majority support from members of the legislative assembly. While Param agreed the sultan is not restricted to just choosing from the names on the lists, he said the ruler’s choice must command the majority support of the legislature...”
Both the quotes from the two experts state that the person must have the majority support. Now 30 out of 56 assemblymen have given their support to PKR president Wan Azizah Wan Ismail. That means that according to the constitution the sultan must appoint her.
If the sultan rejects Azizah by not giving a reason stipulated in the constitution and selects anyone else, it will mean he is acting unconstitutionally and against the will of the people.
If that actually happens it will reconfirm that Malaysia is a false democracy or a dictatorship under the control of the crooked minority Umno government which can ignore the country’s laws and constitution with impunity and get the royalty to do anything it wishes.
Imanust Nais Yalam: In simple layperson language, this is what I understand. The sultan can select who he wants. If the person selected does not command majority support, he/she will be booted out via no-confidence vote. Election is then called.
PAS gets ‘hantam teruk-teruk’ (badly beaten) but Pakatan Rakyat still wins and then the same cycle starts again. If I am right, isn't all these ‘kerja bodoh’ (stupid actions)?
Changeagent: If that is the case, even if new elections are concluded, the sultan will then appoint anyone. You don't like it, call for a no-confidence motion. Then there will be no end to this.
The ruler has to appoint the one who has the majority support. There is no discretion as to ways of determining majority. The only way is by body count.
Ferdtan: Isn't it irrational, and defying simple logic, that the palace can choose any person not from the list submitted from the party/coalition which commands the majority support?
If that is the case, why the motion (and trouble) of going through the process of submitting name/names for the sultan to choose? Why waste the people's time?
We might as well let all the 56 Selangor assemblymen including opposition members from Umno, be among the possible candidate for the palace to choose?
Lim Chong Leong: The sultan may appoint someone whom he thinks command the majority of the House, so he appoints. The House sits and a vote of no confidence is passed, then they vote for new MB and the whole process starts again.
Why the sultan, who can do no wrong, would want to put the people of Selangor through this? He in his infinite wisdom should at least try to tell us.
Meh: Sure, the literal interpretation may give you the right to even appoint a monkey. But that doesn't mean you should not exercise your judgement rationally and logically.
What is the point of appointing someone who on the next sitting of the assembly will be voted out? What kind of responsibility and accountability is that?
NewMalaysia: The more this saga prolong, the more sympathy PKR and DAP will get as they will be seen as being victimised, when both parties nominated Azizah with the support of the majority state assemblypersons, then there can only be one outcome.
Rejecting Azizah is equivalent to rejecting democracy. So far, no reason has been given as to why Azizah is not qualified to be MB.
Did BN or Umno submit three names for the PM candidate to DYMM Agong? If that is not being practiced in the federal level, why should it be done in the state level?
Quigonbond: The circus regarding Selangor MB is turning farcical. Any way you spin it, the bottom line is who gets the majority. There is only one person who gets it so far.
I simply don't see how the sultan can choose another because it would be impractical. If the sultan does that, he is just forcing a dissolution. With PAS seemingly against Pakatan, PKR and DAP can just field their candidates for all the seats and secure a majority.
That will come to pass because Selangorians are urbane enough to know the real issues at hand in contrast to spin in the mainstream media.
After this storm is over, what goes around will come around - an embarrassed sultan, and the PAS president likely to be defeated in internal elections because of his gross missteps. -Mkini
Sultan can appoint one not on the lists as MB
Kim Quek: Yes, technically, the sultan can appoint someone not on the list of suggested MB candidates, but in reality, such an act is impractical, and in fact, damaging to the image of the sultan.First, if the appointee is not from the ruling party, he would be voted out of office. Second, if he is from the ruling party, he would be asked by his party not to accept the appointment, and if he defies the party, he may also be voted out of office.
In either event, the deposed appointee will have to either resign or ask the sultan to dissolve the assembly, resulting in either another new appointment by the sultan or a fresh election for the state.
This process may be repeated ad infinitum if the sultan insists on appointing a candidate not nominated by the ruling party.
Perhaps even more damaging to the sultan is public perception that he does not respect democracy, which in the final crunch, must mean that the will of the majority of the people prevails.
Anonymous_1375693422: Lawyer Param Cumaraswamy says the sultan can dissolve the state assembly (and bring about a fresh election) if the sultan's choice of MB is not supported by a majority in the assembly.
This would allow the sultan to continue dissolving the assembly until a majority of members are coerced to support his preferred choice of MB in order to avoid facing another fresh election. Is this what the state constitution or its framers intend? I seriously doubt it.
I believe the framers intended constitutional government and not monarchical rule under a constitutional facade. The following seems more in accord with constitutionalism.
When the sultan's preferred choice of MB loses a vote of confidence in the assembly, the sultan can only dissolve the assembly if he reasonably believes that no other member is likely to enjoy majority support.
In other words, if there is a member that is clearly supported by a majority, the sultan shall appoint that member as MB and shall not resort to dissolution of the assembly.
Vijay47: Both these seasoned learned lawyers (Param and Sallehuddin Saidin) confirm what the rakyat has been saying all along - that whoever the sultan chooses as menteri besar, even if he be outside that magical "list", that person must enjoy the confidence of the majority of the members of the assembly.
And should that person lose a vote of confidence, the recourse need not be the dissolution of the assembly but the mantle passing on to someone who indeed enjoys majority support.
Pemerhati: Quote: “Sallehuddin said the pre-condition is that the person must have the majority support from members of the legislative assembly. While Param agreed the sultan is not restricted to just choosing from the names on the lists, he said the ruler’s choice must command the majority support of the legislature...”
Both the quotes from the two experts state that the person must have the majority support. Now 30 out of 56 assemblymen have given their support to PKR president Wan Azizah Wan Ismail. That means that according to the constitution the sultan must appoint her.
If the sultan rejects Azizah by not giving a reason stipulated in the constitution and selects anyone else, it will mean he is acting unconstitutionally and against the will of the people.
If that actually happens it will reconfirm that Malaysia is a false democracy or a dictatorship under the control of the crooked minority Umno government which can ignore the country’s laws and constitution with impunity and get the royalty to do anything it wishes.
Imanust Nais Yalam: In simple layperson language, this is what I understand. The sultan can select who he wants. If the person selected does not command majority support, he/she will be booted out via no-confidence vote. Election is then called.
PAS gets ‘hantam teruk-teruk’ (badly beaten) but Pakatan Rakyat still wins and then the same cycle starts again. If I am right, isn't all these ‘kerja bodoh’ (stupid actions)?
Changeagent: If that is the case, even if new elections are concluded, the sultan will then appoint anyone. You don't like it, call for a no-confidence motion. Then there will be no end to this.
The ruler has to appoint the one who has the majority support. There is no discretion as to ways of determining majority. The only way is by body count.
Ferdtan: Isn't it irrational, and defying simple logic, that the palace can choose any person not from the list submitted from the party/coalition which commands the majority support?
If that is the case, why the motion (and trouble) of going through the process of submitting name/names for the sultan to choose? Why waste the people's time?
We might as well let all the 56 Selangor assemblymen including opposition members from Umno, be among the possible candidate for the palace to choose?
Lim Chong Leong: The sultan may appoint someone whom he thinks command the majority of the House, so he appoints. The House sits and a vote of no confidence is passed, then they vote for new MB and the whole process starts again.
Why the sultan, who can do no wrong, would want to put the people of Selangor through this? He in his infinite wisdom should at least try to tell us.
Meh: Sure, the literal interpretation may give you the right to even appoint a monkey. But that doesn't mean you should not exercise your judgement rationally and logically.
What is the point of appointing someone who on the next sitting of the assembly will be voted out? What kind of responsibility and accountability is that?
NewMalaysia: The more this saga prolong, the more sympathy PKR and DAP will get as they will be seen as being victimised, when both parties nominated Azizah with the support of the majority state assemblypersons, then there can only be one outcome.
Rejecting Azizah is equivalent to rejecting democracy. So far, no reason has been given as to why Azizah is not qualified to be MB.
Did BN or Umno submit three names for the PM candidate to DYMM Agong? If that is not being practiced in the federal level, why should it be done in the state level?
Quigonbond: The circus regarding Selangor MB is turning farcical. Any way you spin it, the bottom line is who gets the majority. There is only one person who gets it so far.
I simply don't see how the sultan can choose another because it would be impractical. If the sultan does that, he is just forcing a dissolution. With PAS seemingly against Pakatan, PKR and DAP can just field their candidates for all the seats and secure a majority.
That will come to pass because Selangorians are urbane enough to know the real issues at hand in contrast to spin in the mainstream media.
After this storm is over, what goes around will come around - an embarrassed sultan, and the PAS president likely to be defeated in internal elections because of his gross missteps. -Mkini
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